There have been a lot of excuses made for bailing out homeowners, but this one from economist Robert Shiller takes the cake- now we should worry that going into foreclosure will hurt people’s self esteem: [Shame on you Shiller, you are usually one of my heroes!]
It is important to consider the psychological trauma of foreclosure. No one is likely to starve or sleep on the streets as an immediate result of a foreclosure, and the authorities no longer dump a family’s furniture on the sidewalk when it happens. Nonetheless, there is deep trauma.
Homeownership is fundamental part of a sense of belonging to a country. The psychologist William James wrote in 1890 that “a man’s Self is the sum total of all that he CAN call his, not only his body and his psychic powers, but his clothes and his house, his wife and children, his ancestors and friends, his reputation and works, his lands and horses, and yacht and bank account.”
Homeownership is thus an extension of self; if one owns a part of a country, one tends to feel at one with that country. Policy makers around the world have long known that, and hence have supported the growth of homeownership.
MAYBE that’s why President Bush’s “Ownership Society” theme had such resonance in his 2004 re-election campaign. People instinctively understand that homeownership conveys good feelings about belonging in our society, and that such feelings matter enormously, not only to our economic success but also to the pleasure we can take in it.
The pain of this reverse movement could leave a psychological scar that will be with all of us for the rest of our lives.
This is the same warped logic that keeps us from giving poor grades to children- an excessive concern with coddling self-esteem. Shiller makes the mistake of assuming that everyone opposed to the bailout plans are lacking in sympathy. That is undoubtedly true in some cases. Some of us, however, care very deeply, and believe that in the long run, it is better to learn the importance of financial responsibility from the loss of a house, than from reaching retirement age with no resources and a broken social security system.
Self-esteem comes from overcoming life’s challenges, not from harboring the delusion that we are competent because all obstacles have been swept from our path by someone else. Many of us are opposed to bailouts, not because we don’t care for what happens to individuals, but because we do.
[Thanks L!]
It’s traumatic, all right. Greenspan’s Body Count is at 30 — and that’s a severe undercount, as many suicides are quiet and unreported in the press.
But that argues for preventing bubbles in the first place, not for some massive government effort to bail everybody out when the bubble starts bursting.
Alan Greenspan has a lot of blood on his hands.
Varones-
Greenspan had his part, but I was struck by the James quote where he stated that a Man’s self is the sum of multiple things, including his house, lands, horses, [I suppose you'd say cars today.]yacht and bank account.
Greenspan had a lot of accomplices- parents and a society that teach people that James is right.
If you believe that your intrinsic worth is based on your potential contribution to society, then the loss of a McMansion or a Hummer might be embarassing, but not the end of the world. If you believe that net worth and your real worth are one and the same, then a huge financial blow can make people feel that life is not worth living.
I loved the story of Colonel Sanders of KFC fame. He ran a chicken restaurant out of a gas station until the interstate came through and passed by his station, which ruined his business. According to Wikipedia, he then decided to franchise his business at the age of 65 with his first social security check. The rest is history.
He could have decided that life wasn’t worth living, instead he took what he learned and moved on.
Greenspan’s policy wrecked economic havoc, but too many of us helped him do it.
Mr. Shiller says, “The pain of this reverse movement could leave a psychological scar that will be with all of us for the rest of our lives.”
My response is, the pain of this reverse movement NEEDS to leave a psychological scar with you for the rest of your lives, because YOU CAUSED this whole mess. What you are proposing in all these “homeowner” bailouts, in typical Baby Boomer fashion, is to let yourselves have all the gain and make the next generations pay for it, again.
Tanta at Calculated Risk just put up an astonished response along the same lines as Twist’s, but longer.
In defense of our prophet (little “p”) Bob Shiller, we should note that he does not expound on policy, only effect. While we all seem to agree that America needs a trip to the woodshed to learn finanical responsibility, not to mention other personal reponsibilities, the psychological trauma he speaks of is a real variable.
Much research has been spent on this by our friends at the American Bankers Association. Much of it is secret, like the tobacco research in the 60’s. However, most suspect that Americans are losing their shame when financial failures occur. The stigma of bankruptcy has been falling for years, thus the reform act of a few years ago to tighten the screws (with the unintended consequence of increasing foreclosures at the expense of credit card payments).
My observations of this phenomenon are, like Shillers, amoralistic, in that I only note it, I do not suggest a way to cure it. Although the woodshed has worked for centuries.
I’m not getting the trauma and loss of self esteem. Don’t we pack up and move every 7 or so years? If the 7 years aren’t up bs a little so the kids don’t have to live in shame and ridicule. It’s not like having a family farm foreclosed on that’s been in the family for generations. Psychological scars come and go and what ever happened to our rocks. Get over it. As for Greenpan, this clown’s life should be eternal…..Damnation.
There’s always this option:
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/rfs/684654666.html
Everyone seems in such a hurry to put up a name of someone to blame.
Greenspan, Bush, Lereah, Yun, Bernanke, etc…
Some want to blame groups of people with titles:
Banker, Mortgage Brokers, Lenders, Realtors, Appraisers, etc…
Some want to blame the buyers. Some blame the sellers.
Some blame the renters, bubblesitters or bloggers.
Now Shiller quotes William James.
The psychologist William James wrote in 1890 that “a man’s Self is the sum total of all that he CAN call his, not only his body and his psychic powers, but his clothes and his house, his wife and children, his ancestors and friends, his reputation and works, his lands and horses, and yacht and bank account.”
For whatever good it does…
I will quote Jesus in Luke 12:15.
And He said to them, “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.”
And for whatever good it does in the future…
I will blame any and all of those who did not regard that timeless warning:
Take heed and beware of covetousness.
Much of our country (and world) did mock and continues to mock this principle… and now we all get to pay.
Galatians 6:7 ~ Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
Put the sickle deep into the best harvest that the field of human psychology has to offer…
cause we’re reaping now!
Asset Hunter-
I’m with you. Ultimately- just because the devil’s selling something, it doesn’t mean we have to buy it! [Secularists- feel free to replace "devil" with your favorite shill- if the shoe fits... ]
You’re missing the point–again. It’s not that Shiller is emphasizing bailing out homeowners. That’s not what’s wrong with what he is saying.
What is wrong with what he is saying is that the trauma is inflicted by the violation of “homeownership.” This shows what a bourgeois, police state, ignorant clown he is.
The trauma inflicted is the violation of HOUSING, not “homeownership.” And please, readers, if you own a home, don’t answer this entry, because that means you have taken advantage of innumerable “moral hazard” advantages thrown your way by a corrupt political system–as I have. You are in NO to critize those who have LOST housing.
Once again, in Shiller you have someone who is incapable of answering this question: what is the relation to housing to law?
None of your readers can answer this either, because they haven’t the slightest idea in their featherheads of the way American law treats housing.
They don’t have ANY idea that housing enjoys only minimum scrutiny. They don’t know what minimum scrutiny is, even though it is vital to understanding the role of housing in their OWN lives.
Well, readers, do yourselves a favor: educate your ignorant selves. Read Lindsey v. Normet and try to understand the current role of housing in the Constitution.
That’s were you START to address this mischievous nonsense writen by Shiller.
The ban on housing evictions, which I continue to advocate, is about HOUSING.
And it’s about time.
Just read my book: John Ryskamp, The Eminent Domain Revolt (New York: Algora, 2006).
Is this entry a plug for my book?
You bet, ignorant reader!!
jryskmpr - I admit it. I’m an ignorant reader. You’ve convinced me. Let’s ban housing evictions. I apoligize profusely for ever having even thought to have had an opinion in conflict with yours. I will go out and buy 500 copies of your book. Now please go away.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch…
This is complete crap. It’s NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND, except for housing.
For what it’s worth, Shiller’s entire article is much more even-handed that just the excerpt that was posted here.
Thanks, Twist!
The more this unfolds, the more revelation of the intelligence of the Bible’s Author.
>>The pain of this reverse movement could >>leave a psychological scar that will be with
>>all of us for the rest of our lives
Same goes with the pain of those who never owned a house to begin with. So, we had better go and guarantee a house for every American.
Oh, and I’m sure that when people go to Vegas, and lose a lot of money foolishly, that leaves a psychological scar too. Can we please make a law that says nobody can lose money when they gamble?
Oh, and how about those big ‘ol psychological scars that happen when you are put in prison or jail? Those poor people!!! Let’s nix jail and prison too.
Yay to the 21st Century, a century of idiots!
twist:
>>This is the same warped logic that keeps us
>> from giving poor grades to children- an
>> excessive concern with coddling self->>esteem.
I was getting ready to say the same thing, till I saw the end of your post.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if some of the same kids that for the sake of their “dignity” were not asked to repeat an elementary-school Mathematics course, even though they didn’t understand the basics….
became some of the grown-ups who thus could not do the basic math that would’ve shown them that they couldn’t afford the resets on the subprime loans they were signing?
“Some of us, however, care very deeply, and believe that in the long run, it is better to learn the importance of financial responsibility from the loss of a house”
To “learn” the importance of financial responsibility?? You’re a half-witted idiot. I purchase my home with 20% down on a full doc loan 30-year fixed rate loan, however, I lose my job four months ago because of the criminal actions of the Fed, Treasury, SEC blind eye, rating agency fabrications, & Wall Street manipulator created mess and I NEED TO LEARN THE IMPORTANCE OF FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY?? You’re an *** brother.
This isn’t a problem reserved for just the **** Hummer drivers geniuses. This has oozed into every corner of our society now. Everyone is being affecting on one level or another. Some communities are completely devastated, and you holier-than-thou, financial guru wannabes are trying to preach to me an my family about being responsible?
We drive a **** 1999 Toyota Camery and 2004 Jeep Liberty, paid for our girls to go to college, and saved every spare dime we could only to have it drained away after losing my job despite working two jobs now that pay half of what my previous job paid. I need a lesson from you ****? I need to pay my mortgage no matter what right. The bank comes first and my family and myself come last right?
Look at yourself directly in the eyes tonight before bed. I mean right into your soul and ask yourself what the h*** you and your cronies bloggers are trying to achieve by grouping all of us so horribly hurt by this mess, that had nothing to do with it, with the Hummer driving, 100% Option Arm borrowing, speculator purchasers. What do you think you’re doing?
Pat yourself on the back for being so enlightened.
[Slight edit- T.]
JRB-
I made a slight edit to your language. I understand your feelings, but it wasn’t quite in keeping with our editorial policy.
Back when I was young and newly married, Mr. Twist and I bought a manufactured home, thinking that we could “build equity” rather than rent. We were in Denver, and it was 1982. We should have been fine, but the economy was lousy, and we just couldn’t make it. This in spite of the fact that I drove an old, paid-for Vega and used a sensible mortgage, but things happen.
We sold the place and moved to Japan where we could get work, while remaining on the loan. The guy we sold it to walked away, and we found out about it after we had returned to the U.S., and the place had been foreclosed two years before.
That should have only dinged our credit for seven years, but we kept trying to work things out with the mortgage company, trying to see if we couldn’t make payments or something to clear our name. We discovered though, that every time we called, the clock reset, so it ended up dinging our record for ten years.
I couldn’t buy a home, and buying a car or getting a credit card was practically impossible.
So am I enlightened? I believe I am. I know what it’s like- I’ve been there.
My point is I could have been suicidal about it, or decide that sometimes bad things happen to good people. I had an expensive life’s lesson, and I was going to take what I learned and make the most of it.
Would I recommend putting the bank before family? Pay the mortgage no matter what? Heavens no. Ultimately the bank made a deal. If the borrower can’t pay, the bank gets the house back. The bank made a business decision, and no one should have an “indentured servitude” to the bank.
I think a borrower should do all they can reasonably do, but we all have other obligations besides the mortgage. Most of us can’t afford to pay back $300K on a $150K home. We have college, braces, retirement, and other creditors. Sometimes we just can’t do it all.
I am trying to achieve several things by blogging. I hope that what I would give to someone in your position is hope. I went through what you went through, and went on to be OK. Losing a house shouldn’t be the end of the world for anyone- and I resent a media and government that try and make borrowers feel like it is.
Best of luck to you and your family. I will keep you in my prayers.
I have read all of the above comments. While some are better than others, I have decided to give ALL of you a trophy, a cookie, and five stars (don’t wish to hurt feelings)!!!!!! Good Job everyone!!!!
AZSaluki-
Shiller would be proud of you!
AZSaluki:
>>While some are better than others, I have
>> decided to give ALL of you a trophy, a
>> cookie, and five stars
Hahaha. This thread is over - you win!
Twist-
Don’t feel bad, that looks more like an employment problem to me than a housing problem.