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	<title>Comments on: Op-Ed Friday:  Are Americans Really That Outraged?</title>
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	<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/</link>
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		<title>By: freemonster</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16122</link>
		<dc:creator>freemonster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16122</guid>
		<description>Remember those who forced this bailout down our throats. Now they are just trying to cover their tracks with diversion. And did anybody see the people protesting at AIG? They looked familiar. We&#039;re all suckers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember those who forced this bailout down our throats. Now they are just trying to cover their tracks with diversion. And did anybody see the people protesting at AIG? They looked familiar. We&#8217;re all suckers.</p>
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		<title>By: twist</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16121</link>
		<dc:creator>twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16121</guid>
		<description>Hutch-

I pretty much cycle between &quot;laugh&quot;,&quot;cry&quot; and &quot;cringe&quot; on a regular basis anymore.  You get used to it.  : (</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hutch-</p>
<p>I pretty much cycle between &#8220;laugh&#8221;,&#8221;cry&#8221; and &#8220;cringe&#8221; on a regular basis anymore.  You get used to it.  : (</p>
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		<title>By: Hutch</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16120</link>
		<dc:creator>Hutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16120</guid>
		<description>&quot;The next over-taxed victim could be me.&quot;

Twist, I thought my only reasonable option for facing this fiasco was laugh or cry and prepare for the worst. Now I need to add &#039;cringe in fear&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The next over-taxed victim could be me.&#8221;</p>
<p>Twist, I thought my only reasonable option for facing this fiasco was laugh or cry and prepare for the worst. Now I need to add &#8216;cringe in fear&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: John M.</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16119</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16119</guid>
		<description>Mike -

Thanks for dropping by :)

If politicians want to become the focus for this rage they&#039;d better have patience.  This looks like one of those &lt;em&gt;&quot;... for better service please take a number ...&quot;&lt;/em&gt; situations.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE52J4JK20090320&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Goldman CFO feels no guilt over AIG payments&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, by Joseph A. Giannone, &lt;em&gt;Reuters&lt;/em&gt;, March 20, 2009.&lt;blockquote&gt;Goldman answered reporters&#039; questions on a conference call seeking to clear up what it called &quot;misperceptions&quot; about its trading relationship with AIG. The insurer since mid-September received as much as $180 billion in government support to avoid collapse stemming from its exposure to crumbling debt markets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bank has come under fire amid revelations that $90 billion of those funds were funneled quickly to AIG&#039;s trading counterparties, which were bought out at nearly face value.&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goldman was the largest single beneficiary, receiving $12.9 billion between mid-September and the end of December.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike -</p>
<p>Thanks for dropping by <img src='http://housingdoom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If politicians want to become the focus for this rage they&#8217;d better have patience.  This looks like one of those <em>&#8220;&#8230; for better service please take a number &#8230;&#8221;</em> situations.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE52J4JK20090320" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Goldman CFO feels no guilt over AIG payments&#8221;</a>, by Joseph A. Giannone, <em>Reuters</em>, March 20, 2009.<br />
<blockquote>Goldman answered reporters&#8217; questions on a conference call seeking to clear up what it called &#8220;misperceptions&#8221; about its trading relationship with AIG. The insurer since mid-September received as much as $180 billion in government support to avoid collapse stemming from its exposure to crumbling debt markets.</p>
<p>The bank has come under fire amid revelations that $90 billion of those funds were funneled quickly to AIG&#8217;s trading counterparties, which were bought out at nearly face value.<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>Goldman was the largest single beneficiary, receiving $12.9 billion between mid-September and the end of December.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: mtnmike</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16118</link>
		<dc:creator>mtnmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16118</guid>
		<description>The greatest fear of sitting politicians must certainly be the possibility that taxpayers all wake up on the same morning and the anger that is currently being vented at corporations becomes focused on the former mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The greatest fear of sitting politicians must certainly be the possibility that taxpayers all wake up on the same morning and the anger that is currently being vented at corporations becomes focused on the former mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: John M.</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16117</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16117</guid>
		<description>Linenoise -

A few years ago my Mrs M offered to &lt;em&gt;not play football&lt;/em&gt; for &lt;em&gt;half&lt;/em&gt; of what Joe Montana was charging the 49ers(?).

... meanwhile, a Doom friend just checked in with his take on the present rage:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://mikefolkerth.com/2009/03/19/the-bitter-end/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The Bitter End!&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;em&gt;MikeFolkerth.com&lt;/em&gt;, March 19, 2009.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linenoise -</p>
<p>A few years ago my Mrs M offered to <em>not play football</em> for <em>half</em> of what Joe Montana was charging the 49ers(?).</p>
<p>&#8230; meanwhile, a Doom friend just checked in with his take on the present rage:</p>
<p><a href="http://mikefolkerth.com/2009/03/19/the-bitter-end/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The Bitter End!&#8221;</a>, <em>MikeFolkerth.com</em>, March 19, 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: Linenoise</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16116</link>
		<dc:creator>Linenoise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16116</guid>
		<description>We knew at the time of the first bailout that the money was going to bonuses - people who still supported it have no right to be outraged.  Sure, the bonuses were contractually obligated, but I think the outrage is really that these people still have jobs.  Why is a group of people who lost billions still employed, let alone getting huge bonuses?  And the CEOs come out and say the bonus money is needed to keep &quot;talent&quot;?  Hell, I&#039;ll lose your company $10 billion for half the cost!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We knew at the time of the first bailout that the money was going to bonuses &#8211; people who still supported it have no right to be outraged.  Sure, the bonuses were contractually obligated, but I think the outrage is really that these people still have jobs.  Why is a group of people who lost billions still employed, let alone getting huge bonuses?  And the CEOs come out and say the bonus money is needed to keep &#8220;talent&#8221;?  Hell, I&#8217;ll lose your company $10 billion for half the cost!</p>
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		<title>By: John M.</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16115</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16115</guid>
		<description>twist -

OK, I&#039;ve put my pitchfork away and am now contemplating &lt;em&gt;THE POWER OF NONSENSE&#8482;&lt;/em&gt; ...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aS3sqApnTg5w&amp;refer=home&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Dollar Gains on Bets Record Decline on Fed Too Big to Sustain&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, by Ye Xie, &lt;em&gt;Bloomberg&lt;/em&gt;, March 20, 2009.&lt;blockquote&gt;“We’ve seen a sharp sell-off in the dollar, and it’s overdue for a correction,” said Michael Woolfolk, senior currency strategist in New York at Bank of New York Mellon, the world’s largest custodial bank, with more than $23 trillion in assets under administration. “I don’t expect the most recent sell-off is the beginning of a sustained dollar decline.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;... where do they get those amazing names?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>twist -</p>
<p>OK, I&#8217;ve put my pitchfork away and am now contemplating <em>THE POWER OF NONSENSE&trade;</em> &#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=aS3sqApnTg5w&#038;refer=home" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Dollar Gains on Bets Record Decline on Fed Too Big to Sustain&#8221;</a>, by Ye Xie, <em>Bloomberg</em>, March 20, 2009.<br />
<blockquote>“We’ve seen a sharp sell-off in the dollar, and it’s overdue for a correction,” said Michael Woolfolk, senior currency strategist in New York at Bank of New York Mellon, the world’s largest custodial bank, with more than $23 trillion in assets under administration. “I don’t expect the most recent sell-off is the beginning of a sustained dollar decline.”</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; where do they get those amazing names?</p>
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		<title>By: AZSALUKI</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16114</link>
		<dc:creator>AZSALUKI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16114</guid>
		<description>i agree....it should be a &quot;my bad&quot; moment. i don&#039;t like the bonuses any more than the next guy. but here&#039;s the problem. i had heard the original reason for dropping the original stipulations, that would have capped pay and bonuses was the contractual concerns that the admin had. they didn&#039;t want to end up in court over non payment issues. if that was the case, then why aren&#039;t they still concerned over the legalities (i&#039;ve heard some admit that the 90% tax is prolly unconstitutional but that they are for it anyway). but what i really don&#039;t get is....why, if they care about contract law, did they give judges some authority to modify mortgages (contracts) in one bill, but then were scared to tamper with contract issues in another. they&#039;re makin it up as they go.

and on another note....as a nation we&#039;re at a point where we have an opportunity to help out each other.....or &quot;take to the streets.&quot; i, for one, hope the entire country doesn&#039;t end up lookin like detroit after winning the NBA or U of A after winning the NCAA title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree&#8230;.it should be a &#8220;my bad&#8221; moment. i don&#8217;t like the bonuses any more than the next guy. but here&#8217;s the problem. i had heard the original reason for dropping the original stipulations, that would have capped pay and bonuses was the contractual concerns that the admin had. they didn&#8217;t want to end up in court over non payment issues. if that was the case, then why aren&#8217;t they still concerned over the legalities (i&#8217;ve heard some admit that the 90% tax is prolly unconstitutional but that they are for it anyway). but what i really don&#8217;t get is&#8230;.why, if they care about contract law, did they give judges some authority to modify mortgages (contracts) in one bill, but then were scared to tamper with contract issues in another. they&#8217;re makin it up as they go.</p>
<p>and on another note&#8230;.as a nation we&#8217;re at a point where we have an opportunity to help out each other&#8230;..or &#8220;take to the streets.&#8221; i, for one, hope the entire country doesn&#8217;t end up lookin like detroit after winning the NBA or U of A after winning the NCAA title.</p>
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		<title>By: twist</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16113</link>
		<dc:creator>twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16113</guid>
		<description>John-

Pearlstein&#039;s article concerned me.  I think it&#039;s about time that people around the globe educate themselves on financial issues. Then they need to write letters, take to the streets and get online to make their voices heard. As so many of the governments efforts to &quot;contain the financial crisis&quot; are counterproductive, concerned citizens need to get out there and undermine them.

I&#039;ll agree that it&#039;s best to leave the pitchforks at home though- let&#039;s take to the streets waving ballots instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John-</p>
<p>Pearlstein&#8217;s article concerned me.  I think it&#8217;s about time that people around the globe educate themselves on financial issues. Then they need to write letters, take to the streets and get online to make their voices heard. As so many of the governments efforts to &#8220;contain the financial crisis&#8221; are counterproductive, concerned citizens need to get out there and undermine them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll agree that it&#8217;s best to leave the pitchforks at home though- let&#8217;s take to the streets waving ballots instead.</p>
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		<title>By: twist</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16112</link>
		<dc:creator>twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16112</guid>
		<description>Keith-

I don&#039;t like the idea of a 90% tax on ANYTHING. The next over-taxed victim could be me.

AIG is obligated to pay their employees, but we are not obligated to pay them.  The bailout money could have been issued like a government grant with stipulations on how it is spent.

We shouldn&#039;t be surprised when money is given to institutions and they have carte blanche to spend it as they wish, that we might not approve of how the money is spent.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to take the time in the first place to say what we are willing to pay for, and what we are not.

I don&#039;t think the bailout money should have been passed out the way it was, but this should be a &quot;my bad&quot; moment for our government officials. Any action to take back the bonuses now just adds more uncertainty to the market. Changing the rules daily is bad for business.

That leaves taxpayers with the bill- a fact we should remember the next time we go to the polls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith-</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like the idea of a 90% tax on ANYTHING. The next over-taxed victim could be me.</p>
<p>AIG is obligated to pay their employees, but we are not obligated to pay them.  The bailout money could have been issued like a government grant with stipulations on how it is spent.</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t be surprised when money is given to institutions and they have carte blanche to spend it as they wish, that we might not approve of how the money is spent.  That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s important to take the time in the first place to say what we are willing to pay for, and what we are not.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the bailout money should have been passed out the way it was, but this should be a &#8220;my bad&#8221; moment for our government officials. Any action to take back the bonuses now just adds more uncertainty to the market. Changing the rules daily is bad for business.</p>
<p>That leaves taxpayers with the bill- a fact we should remember the next time we go to the polls.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16111</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16111</guid>
		<description>I think the American people need to get a grip on reality and how bonuses are treated at C-level positions.  We can be irate with the ridiculous salaries these guys make, but that isn&#039;t the issue at hand.  These bonuses to AIG were not &#039;performance&#039; bonuses, but were contractually obligated under terms of employment.  In essence, they are no different than base salary, only paid in lump sum.  So long as AIG is in business, employee salary (and contracted bonuses) are their #1 liability.  By backing AIG, the US government agreed to support AIG in all obligations, including employee pay.

So let&#039;s take it down a more reasonable level.  Johnny Q was hired by AIG 2 years ago, with a sign-on bonus of $20k to be fully realized at the end of two year with a final payment of $10k.  Now the government steps in to bail out AIG.  AIG (and the gov&#039;t by proxy) are still obligated to pay this contractual bonus.  The executive bonuses are different only in scale.

You want to talk about moral hazard?  Let&#039;s give the gov&#039;t the right to nullify contracts.  And this new 90% bonus tax they&#039;re trying to push through now just does the same thing.

Horrors, indeed, Igor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the American people need to get a grip on reality and how bonuses are treated at C-level positions.  We can be irate with the ridiculous salaries these guys make, but that isn&#8217;t the issue at hand.  These bonuses to AIG were not &#8216;performance&#8217; bonuses, but were contractually obligated under terms of employment.  In essence, they are no different than base salary, only paid in lump sum.  So long as AIG is in business, employee salary (and contracted bonuses) are their #1 liability.  By backing AIG, the US government agreed to support AIG in all obligations, including employee pay.</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s take it down a more reasonable level.  Johnny Q was hired by AIG 2 years ago, with a sign-on bonus of $20k to be fully realized at the end of two year with a final payment of $10k.  Now the government steps in to bail out AIG.  AIG (and the gov&#8217;t by proxy) are still obligated to pay this contractual bonus.  The executive bonuses are different only in scale.</p>
<p>You want to talk about moral hazard?  Let&#8217;s give the gov&#8217;t the right to nullify contracts.  And this new 90% bonus tax they&#8217;re trying to push through now just does the same thing.</p>
<p>Horrors, indeed, Igor.</p>
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		<title>By: mtnmike</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16110</link>
		<dc:creator>mtnmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16110</guid>
		<description>&quot;contain the financial crises.&quot; Does anyone else see the irony of our past and current leadership, who have enslaved the next three generations in untenable debt repayment, solving a financial crises?

If history is a teacher, we can look to the attitude of the people during the Great Depression. John Dillinger was seen as a national hero and the banks were very much considered the villains.

And yes Igor, I&#039;m riled up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;contain the financial crises.&#8221; Does anyone else see the irony of our past and current leadership, who have enslaved the next three generations in untenable debt repayment, solving a financial crises?</p>
<p>If history is a teacher, we can look to the attitude of the people during the Great Depression. John Dillinger was seen as a national hero and the banks were very much considered the villains.</p>
<p>And yes Igor, I&#8217;m riled up.</p>
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		<title>By: John M.</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/20/op-ed-friday-are-americans-really-that-outraged/#comment-16109</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=2120#comment-16109</guid>
		<description>Yes they are outraged. The Powers, Principalities, Dominions, etc. are clearly worried.  This widely syndicated columnist is trying to soothe a lid on it, but his article has much of the flavour of a memo from FEMA or some directorate within the FBI with a mandate to do public diplomacy.  It&#039;s what old fashioned Kremlinologists used to call semi-official, and they&#039;d be mining stuff like this hard to get some idea of the true thoughts of the folk who made up the PPT deck for the secret meeting on the evening of March 13, 2008. (Igor thinks I&#039;m &quot;clueless,&quot;, but what does &lt;em&gt;he&lt;/em&gt; know ;) )

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/03/19/ST2009031903623.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Let&#039;s Put Down the Pitchforks&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, Steven Pearlstein, &lt;em&gt;Washington Post&lt;/em&gt;, March 20, 2009.&lt;blockquote&gt;But there&#039;s a danger in letting this outrage get to the point that it undermines the effort to contain the financial crisis. And with Congress now rushing to pass legislation taxing away the bonuses of every banker at every bank or financial institution that takes government money, that point seems to have been reached.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes they are outraged. The Powers, Principalities, Dominions, etc. are clearly worried.  This widely syndicated columnist is trying to soothe a lid on it, but his article has much of the flavour of a memo from FEMA or some directorate within the FBI with a mandate to do public diplomacy.  It&#8217;s what old fashioned Kremlinologists used to call semi-official, and they&#8217;d be mining stuff like this hard to get some idea of the true thoughts of the folk who made up the PPT deck for the secret meeting on the evening of March 13, 2008. (Igor thinks I&#8217;m &#8220;clueless,&#8221;, but what does <em>he</em> know <img src='http://housingdoom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/03/19/ST2009031903623.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Let&#8217;s Put Down the Pitchforks&#8221;</a>, Steven Pearlstein, <em>Washington Post</em>, March 20, 2009.<br />
<blockquote>But there&#8217;s a danger in letting this outrage get to the point that it undermines the effort to contain the financial crisis. And with Congress now rushing to pass legislation taxing away the bonuses of every banker at every bank or financial institution that takes government money, that point seems to have been reached.</p></blockquote>
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