How’s this for a weird one? It is not uncommon to see sad stories where grandparents in 55+ communities end up with custody of grandchildren and have difficulty with HOAs and neighbors. This time though, the community wants the little girl gone, but they don’t want the grandparents to drop the home price too much- they think it might hurt neighborhood home values.
A protracted battle to get a 6-year-old Florida girl to move out of a 55-plus community has dragged on, her grandmother says, because the housing market meltdown has made it impossible to sell her home.
Kimberly Broffman moved in to Judie and Jim Stottler’s Clearwater home when she was 6 months old in 2004, well before foreclosures started mounting in Florida. The move was only meant to be temporary — the rules of the retirement community state that anyone under 18 cannot live there longer than 60 days — but with the little girl’s mother in and out of jail and coping with a drug problem, a court awarded Ms. Stottler custody of her granddaughter. The local Homeowners Association insists the little girl must leave; Ms. Stottler says there is nowhere else for her to go, and they cannot afford to move unless the house sells.
“[The association doesn’t] live under a rock. They know the housing situation, they know the economy,” said Ms. Stottler, 62, while at work as a dietery assistant at an assisted living facility, where she earns $18,000 a year. “I’ve been trying to sell my home, but I can’t drag somebody off the street to buy it.”
Mr. Stottler, 54, is not working due to a disability.
Robert Eckard, the family’s lawyer, said the Stottlers do not plan to give up Kimberly. “There’s no where else to go except for foster care,” said Mr. Eckard, who took on the Stottler’s case pro bono after he saw it in the news. “My goal is to keep them together which they still are.”
It sounds like the Stottlers are willing to be aggressive in pricing their home. Even after dropping the price from $239,000 to $129,000 though, there was only one showing in nine months. You’d think that if the homeowners association was in a real hurry to have the little girl gone, they’d want Grandma to cut the price so she could sell, but no:
Ms. Stottler said she’s offered to bring the price down even further, but she said a lawyer for the Association discouraged her from going too low because it would bring down the value of the entire neighborhood.
I don’t know why the Stottlers would be taking advice like that from the HOA’s attorney. Homes in the neighborhood are worth what people are willing to pay, and "discouraging" owners from pricing homes realistically won’t prop up home values. Clearwater is in the Tampa area, which has seen a 17% drop in the median price in the past year. Setting the price too high and waiting for someone to come along and pay it is not a good sales strategy.
It’s difficult to understand what sort of reasonable accomodation the HOA wants if they want the little girl gone, but don’t want the house price low enough for the owners to sell. If I were the Stottlers, I think I’d ignore the HOA’s attorney, cut the price and get out of the neighborhood. They don’t sound like the kind of folks I’d want to live next door to anyway.
“Ms. Stottler said she’s offered to bring the price down even further, but she said a lawyer for the Association discouraged her from going too low because it would bring down the value of the entire neighborhood.”
The solution is simple. Let the HOA make up the difference between the sale price of the unit and what they think the fair market value is.
The Stottlers escape with their unwelcome foster daughter, the new homeowner gets a good deal and the HOA enjoys the illusion that their community has maintained a high level of value.
What’s not to like?
Wait, it gets better. The HOA can write off the expense by claiming it as the cost of developing a new advertising motto.
Clearwater HOA: We help you pay more than your house is worth.
malthus –
You’re a better person than me. My first thought is if these old farts are that hellbent on forcing one 6 year old – who apparently has had a really tough life so far – out of the community, then the people being forced to move should lower their price and drive the neighborhood’s value down as much as they can. I understand HOA rules and wanting an adult community, etc etc, but come on, the kid’s been through a lot, and its not like one little kid is going to ruin the ambiance..
Unfortunately what has not been reported in the MSM is that the association has little choice in enforcing the rule. If they don’t, they will lose the 55+ status which could potentially hurt values even more. 55+ communities are taxed at a much lower rate too (lower school tax). Note that the association gave some forbearance for over a year. Sad, but when people buy into these communities they give up many rights. The rules usually permit underaged visitors for up to two weeks.
Tobby-
I know you are right about the 55+ status- I’ve seen similar cases in the Phoenix area. With 5 kids, Mr. Twist and I have come to the conclusion that we wouldn’t dare ever live in one of these communities. I pray that I won’t ever have a grandchild in a situation like that, but I wouldn’t want to be caught in that bind.
Still, the HOA can’t have it both ways. If they want the child out fast, they need to recognize that the house needs to be priced where it will sell. If they want the owner to “price-to-fantasy”, they need to be resigned to having the kid around for awhile.
Igor’s disgusted, and I feel the same way.
If you dig a little more into this story you will see that they have had 3 years to sell. They became foster parents almost immediately. The mother of the kid is simply a lazy drug doing women. This community was more than accommodating. This couple just kept pushing pushing and the HOA finally got fed up rightly so. If they would have sold 3 years ago they would have done much better. I do have empathy for people but not for people who cry victim. Please research further and get the whole story.. Can you imagine if we let everyone break the rules. When do you stop making exceptions. These people inherited this condo from her parents and should be able to sell at any price.
i feel awful for the little girl….but triplec is correct. why didn’t they sell in 05, when, i’m sure they would’ve done great. also, i’m not familiar with these communities, but why has mr stottler (age 54) been allowed to live there. is it 55+, but as long as you’re over 18, it’s ok? i’m sure there are all kinds of screwy rules with these places that i don’t get, but the bottom line is that they knew BEFORE and DURING the boom that they had to move. and to play devil’s advocate….if they own it clear and inhereted it, then i would sell it for 50K and give the association the bird as i packed up the moving truck.
[T]he kid’s been through a lot, and it’s not like one little kid is going to ruin the ambiance.–linenoise
I agree. We all need to remember that justice does not trump mercy. The Stottler’s kindness merits better consideration than the threat of legal action. As such, let the “old farts” pitch in and start a college fund for the departing foster child, which is a far better course of action than starting a lawsuit.
I could not help but see this thread while surfing tonight, the story above is not totally correct. The child was not 4 months old when this all started. Not sure of the exact age, but I do know she was not 4 months as stated. the home was never priced at 239k. Yes, they have lowered the price. I am a licensed community manager in Florida and a real estate associate. The rules are rules just for that reason; if I wanted to live in a 55+ community I would buy in and expect it to be 55+, not 55+ plus kids. They knew the rules when they moved in, they applied and were approved by the HOA. There is no gray area here. If you moved into a community that said “in the rules and regs” NO FENCES, would you put one up anyway? How about “no car repairs in the driveway” would you put your car up on cinder blocks and expect that they let it go? You get the point. That being said, I am sympathetic to this situation and doing everything I can to help this family move on with their life. I have been working and marketing this home for the last 2.5 years pro bono….I am the realtor that has the listing. I was elected within my company to handle this listing as I was the most aggressive to get the job done. True, the housing market is BAD! Pricing drops weekly, they do need some time to get this done. There is no easy answer. However I am open to any suggestions. ANYONE WANT TO BUY AND LIVE IN THE GREAT LAKES COMMUNITY?
starfirey2k can you post the public listing link to the house? Are there any other sales in that development over the last year?
AZSALUKI, generally one of the spouses needs to be 55+.
55+ communities are interesting in that it is the only form of housing discrimination (other than gender in certain circumstances) that is tolerated. They sell great when there is a flood of retirees. But in a recession when retirees are staying put they languish. It is an extremely limited market.
starfire,
just curious…but if there is “no gray area here” then how is it that they were allowed to move in to begin with, when the husband is now 54 and has lived there for years? i understand you are in a tough spot. i am just wondering why the legal action now, and not immediately (when the house should’ve been able to sell quickly). i don’t know the specifics and maybe the association is being more than fair. it just seems like if they were going to force them out, they should’ve forced them out immediately. had they done that, this would not even be a story now. i have no suggestions…and am glad i’m not in your shoes.
lol…looks like toby answered my age question before i could even post it. but again, what if i hit the lotto at 55 and find me an 18 year old gold digger to wed? would we be allowed into one of these communities? if it’s a subjective, case by case thing, then it sure sounds like discrimination to me.
Here is a link,http://www.trulia.com/property/1040891974-4429-Great-Lakes-Dr-N-Clearwater-FL-33762
there is no gray area! you are interviewed and approved to live there. simple, the child was not there when they moved in. the legal action did not just start, it has been going on for quite some time now. I can’t quote the rules here but if I hit the lottery and found a gold digger to marry!! not only would I not have this listing, I would not want to live in this area. somewhere in tonga!! fishing, sun, no cars
the important thing to hold onto is this, rules are rules, you cannot bend them for everyone. spend the time trying to help these people rather than debating it. I just wanted to correct the story that was on the page, this is a huge problem, INCORRECT REPORTING. help us sell this property.
Starfire-
Kudos to you for taking on this listing. Other than the original starting price however, I’m not sure from your comments where the “incorrect reporting” lies. It would not surprise me however. I’ve been interviewed by the media a time or two, and often notice a disconnect between what I say and what is reported.
My response is that there are no easy answers. I understand that people move into communities like this because they do not want to be in a neighborhood with children. [I understand that academically, personally, it has no appeal for me.] I also understand that exceptions can cause a loss of the 55+ status.
That said, were I in similar circumstances, I wouldn’t put up a fence if the rules did not permit it, nor would I leave a car up on blocks- rules or not. I would not however, put my grandchild in foster care- rules or no rules.
Can they rent the property out and move elsewhere?
There were various cases like this around Phoenix, and there probably still are some. Youngtown used to have such a rule, and one couple had a $100/day fine for a similar case. Usually, the rule is one resident must be 55-plus, and no residents under 18. So, anybody 19-54 would be in the clear as long as there was a 55-plus. Just no kids for more than visits.
I remember helping some folks collect ballot signatures a few years ago in Sun City. Most who answered were very interested in the political process, and so it is a great spot for that type of activity. But a couple of times I stumbled upon some places that clearly had been inherited or something, and no person older than 55 was around. They got so nervous, you would have thought that I was in the Gestapo. Obviously, I really did not care, but it probably makes for an odd “outlaw” existence.