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	<title>Comments on: More Can Still Go Wrong With Housing</title>
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	<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/</link>
	<description>"He who defends everything defends nothing." - Frederick the Great</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:28:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: jwmccormack</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21228</link>
		<dc:creator>jwmccormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21228</guid>
		<description>I have been a real estate broker for 10+ years and a real estate financial analyst for 2+ years. The housing market is definitely not stabilizing. Prices will continue to decline for the next 2-4 years. I cover this in my blog &lt;a href=&quot;www.haltingforeclosures.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.HaltingForeclosures.com&lt;/a&gt;. The government stimulus programs (expanded FHA, tax credit, TARP, increased Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie mortgage purchases, etc.) are the entire real estate market with the result of artificially propping the housing market up now. Once the government runs out of money (it will happen soon) and as a result stops these housing and bank subsidies, and the next wave of foreclosures occurs (Option ARMs), the real estate market will decline rapidly again. This does not even factor in the commercial real estate collapse that is occurring right now.  Personally, I believe that the spring of 2010 will be the last window of opportunity to sell real estate before the next decline.  I will be selling my home and taking a cash position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a real estate broker for 10+ years and a real estate financial analyst for 2+ years. The housing market is definitely not stabilizing. Prices will continue to decline for the next 2-4 years. I cover this in my blog <a href="www.haltingforeclosures.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.HaltingForeclosures.com</a>. The government stimulus programs (expanded FHA, tax credit, TARP, increased Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie mortgage purchases, etc.) are the entire real estate market with the result of artificially propping the housing market up now. Once the government runs out of money (it will happen soon) and as a result stops these housing and bank subsidies, and the next wave of foreclosures occurs (Option ARMs), the real estate market will decline rapidly again. This does not even factor in the commercial real estate collapse that is occurring right now.  Personally, I believe that the spring of 2010 will be the last window of opportunity to sell real estate before the next decline.  I will be selling my home and taking a cash position.</p>
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		<title>By: malthus</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21226</link>
		<dc:creator>malthus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21226</guid>
		<description>[A]lmost a third of our productive facilities stand idle.--John Buell

Since y2k (at the very least), the Fed has pursued a policy of artificially low interest rates. The result has been overinvestment in capital goods. 

Factories are idle because the expected revenue stream anticipated by their owners (who were tricked into thinking there was a greater pool of savings than actually existed) never materialized.

These are not &quot;productive&quot; factories; they are mute testimony to capital misallocation brought on by loose monetary policy.

The problem is not actually the economy (which is only a metaphor for the voluntary exchange of goods and services). The banking cartel, as represented by the Federal Reserve and its member banks, is the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[A]lmost a third of our productive facilities stand idle.&#8211;John Buell</p>
<p>Since y2k (at the very least), the Fed has pursued a policy of artificially low interest rates. The result has been overinvestment in capital goods. </p>
<p>Factories are idle because the expected revenue stream anticipated by their owners (who were tricked into thinking there was a greater pool of savings than actually existed) never materialized.</p>
<p>These are not &#8220;productive&#8221; factories; they are mute testimony to capital misallocation brought on by loose monetary policy.</p>
<p>The problem is not actually the economy (which is only a metaphor for the voluntary exchange of goods and services). The banking cartel, as represented by the Federal Reserve and its member banks, is the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: AZSALUKI</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21225</link>
		<dc:creator>AZSALUKI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21225</guid>
		<description>apparently the recovery just isn&#039;t happening because appraisers are holding it up?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33996852

i guess we should let them go back to just asking the lender what the appraisal &quot;needs to be&quot; and they can write down that number?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>apparently the recovery just isn&#8217;t happening because appraisers are holding it up?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/33996852" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnbc.com/id/33996852</a></p>
<p>i guess we should let them go back to just asking the lender what the appraisal &#8220;needs to be&#8221; and they can write down that number?</p>
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		<title>By: twist</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21222</link>
		<dc:creator>twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21222</guid>
		<description>John, GYSC-

It&#039;s nice to feel appreciated. : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, GYSC-</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice to feel appreciated. : )</p>
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		<title>By: John M.</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21221</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21221</guid>
		<description>twist (#3) -

Like GYSC says ...   :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>twist (#3) -</p>
<p>Like GYSC says &#8230;   <img src='http://housingdoom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: wcvarones</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21220</link>
		<dc:creator>wcvarones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21220</guid>
		<description>Del Mar, California CRE bloodbath &lt;a href=&quot;http://wcvarones.blogspot.com/2009/11/del-mar-cre-update.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in pictures&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Del Mar, California CRE bloodbath <a href="http://wcvarones.blogspot.com/2009/11/del-mar-cre-update.html" rel="nofollow">in pictures</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: GYSC</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21219</link>
		<dc:creator>GYSC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21219</guid>
		<description>Twist and John,
The Housing Doom post on the Phoenix market a couple days back got a shout out at Clusterstock today!  Great job and I expect your traffic will jump.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twist and John,<br />
The Housing Doom post on the Phoenix market a couple days back got a shout out at Clusterstock today!  Great job and I expect your traffic will jump.</p>
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		<title>By: twist</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21218</link>
		<dc:creator>twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21218</guid>
		<description>Chuck-

I don&#039;t see how we can get around deflation. I keep seeing a path that I don&#039;t know how we can escape.

The only way to provide lasting employment for Americans, not &quot;one-time stimulus stuff&quot;, is for companies to make what Americans need. Sadly, we have exported those jobs overseas.  To bring jobs home then, we need to be competitive.  It&#039;s tough to be competitive when we make $25/hr.+ benefits and the overseas competition makes $45/month.

Hey, I don&#039;t want to make $45/month any more than the next guy, so I hope we can be competitive without matching dollar for dollar.  That said, I don&#039;t see how to get the economy back in balance without Americans accepting a huge cut in our standard of living.

We can&#039;t keep borrowing overseas money to buy stuff from overseas.  In the long run, it won&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck-</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how we can get around deflation. I keep seeing a path that I don&#8217;t know how we can escape.</p>
<p>The only way to provide lasting employment for Americans, not &#8220;one-time stimulus stuff&#8221;, is for companies to make what Americans need. Sadly, we have exported those jobs overseas.  To bring jobs home then, we need to be competitive.  It&#8217;s tough to be competitive when we make $25/hr.+ benefits and the overseas competition makes $45/month.</p>
<p>Hey, I don&#8217;t want to make $45/month any more than the next guy, so I hope we can be competitive without matching dollar for dollar.  That said, I don&#8217;t see how to get the economy back in balance without Americans accepting a huge cut in our standard of living.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t keep borrowing overseas money to buy stuff from overseas.  In the long run, it won&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Ponzi</title>
		<link>http://housingdoom.com/2009/11/16/more-can-still-go-wrong-with-housing/comment-page-1/#comment-21217</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Ponzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://housingdoom.com/?p=5334#comment-21217</guid>
		<description>The point that Buell is perhaps hoping the reader will make is that we haven&#039;t reached the market clearing price.

Market Clearing Prices are a fundamental concept that we all learned in Econ 101 (if we took it).  It is the price at which buyers and sellers make an efficient market (maximum utilization of resources, but keep in mind &quot;maximum&quot; is not necessarily 100%).

There are 2 serious problems impeding this return to an efficient market.
1.  Sticky prices.  This concept is fairly well known and understood.  It simply takes time for prices to adjust downward (they do so slower than upward)

2.  Government intervention.  The government has used a myriad of ways to &quot;extend and pretend&quot; in many ways, of which there are too many to list here without hijacking the thread.

As always said &quot;There&#039;s nothing price won&#039;t fix&quot;.  Unfortunately, that&#039;s deflation, and noone wants deflation... it&#039;s the boogeyman; and he&#039;s coming to get you.

Did you know that you can make money buying a house in the high desert and leaving it sit, claiming it as your primary residence while renting elsewhere?  Yes, it&#039;s true, if I spend 80K on a house and get an 8K stimulus, I can make payments for many years before having to pay the piper.  There&#039;s a lot of speculation here.  Rampant.

Besides, think there&#039;s no global deflation?  Watch this and then answer than question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk

Chuck Ponzi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point that Buell is perhaps hoping the reader will make is that we haven&#8217;t reached the market clearing price.</p>
<p>Market Clearing Prices are a fundamental concept that we all learned in Econ 101 (if we took it).  It is the price at which buyers and sellers make an efficient market (maximum utilization of resources, but keep in mind &#8220;maximum&#8221; is not necessarily 100%).</p>
<p>There are 2 serious problems impeding this return to an efficient market.<br />
1.  Sticky prices.  This concept is fairly well known and understood.  It simply takes time for prices to adjust downward (they do so slower than upward)</p>
<p>2.  Government intervention.  The government has used a myriad of ways to &#8220;extend and pretend&#8221; in many ways, of which there are too many to list here without hijacking the thread.</p>
<p>As always said &#8220;There&#8217;s nothing price won&#8217;t fix&#8221;.  Unfortunately, that&#8217;s deflation, and noone wants deflation&#8230; it&#8217;s the boogeyman; and he&#8217;s coming to get you.</p>
<p>Did you know that you can make money buying a house in the high desert and leaving it sit, claiming it as your primary residence while renting elsewhere?  Yes, it&#8217;s true, if I spend 80K on a house and get an 8K stimulus, I can make payments for many years before having to pay the piper.  There&#8217;s a lot of speculation here.  Rampant.</p>
<p>Besides, think there&#8217;s no global deflation?  Watch this and then answer than question:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk</a></p>
<p>Chuck Ponzi</p>
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